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PHAbymom: On behalf of Jeff Barringer and all of us at Cat Hobbyist, I'm very pleased to welcome JoAnn to our Ninth Annual Chat Week.

PHAbymom: JoAnn has been showing and breeding Maine Coon Cats since 1989. While she no longer breeds cats,but she is still active in the show circuit. She shows in ACFA, TICA & CFA. Tonight she is here to explain how to go about choosing a pure bred cat from a cattery. What to look for and what questions to ask to know you are getting a healthy animal. How to tell the good from the bad. She can also answer questions on getting started in showing cats.

PHAbymom: Thank you so much for joining us, JoAnn and welcome!

taelcat: :::waves::: Thank you and hi again, everyone!

PHAbymom: Glad to have you here!

StLouieKits: :::claps:::

PHCatByte: :::: purrrs:::::

PHKellen: Welcome, JoAnn!

taelcat: I know one thing that one must look for in buying a purebred or rescuing from a shelter, is that the cat is healthy. Checking eyes and nose for dischrage. Seeing if cat is alert.

PHAbymom: What if a breeder won't let you visit the cattery?

taelcat: Then I wouldn't buy from them, Abymom.

brody2: Stupid question- I dont' see a Joanne listed on room users

PHAbymom: Taelcat is JoAnn, Brody

PHCatByte: hee hee--that's taelcat, brody....

taelcat: I always tell buyers to visit the home.

taelcat: brody, "taelcat" is my cattery name. :)

brody2: I wouldn't buy either ... mills aren't unheard of in purebred cats - or hoarders :(

taelcat: I'm so used to being called "tael" too. It's like my middle name now.

brody2: thanks joanne ;)

taelcat: you're welcome, brody.

PHCatByte: Nope, st louie is after kellen, tael!

StLouieKits: Joanne, do all good breeders ask that an animal be returned to them if the buyers can't keep it for whatever reason?

taelcat: StLouie, most definietly.

brody2: A decent rescue should put same offer out there

taelcat: Many breeders put that in their contract that they get contacted if the owner can't keep the cat. I know of a breeder friend right now who has that situation. She is getting a 6 year old MC returned and must find a new home for him.

PHCatByte: tael, how can someone tell a GOOD breeder from someone who is going to produce three bad litters then disappear from sight?

taelcat: CB, that's a toughie. One way is to find out first if the breeder does register their litters with the various associations (CFA, ACFA, TICA)

taelcat: The buyer can also visit cat shows and talk to other breeders and find out info about the person they intend to buy a cat from. It's interesting that most breeders who breed for 5 years are in it for the long haul. Most stop before 5 years.

PHCatByte: aby, your comment?

StLouieKits: Should a purebred cat already have it's first shots when you buy it?

PHAbymom: Just that, find out how long they've been involved in the cat fancy... and how many breeds they've worked with.

taelcat: StLouie, I know that in Maine Coons, most breeders do not let them go to new homes until they are 12 weeks of age. They should have their first and second shots by that time. Rabies isn't given until they are 16 week of age, so that will be the responsibility of the new owner, as well as the last fvrcp shot.

taelcat: Aby, yes that's a good point!

PHKellen: Some breeds have genetic condtions that run in their lines .... should a buyer insist the parent cats be tested first?

PHKellen: (sorry, little cat in front of the monitor ...)

taelcat: That's another tought question... I do think that it's a good idea for the pet buyer to be aware of genetic issues in the breed of cat that they choose.

taelcat: Many breeders will put on their website that they test for certain diseases that can be tested for ( like HCM).

PHAbymom: Testing hasn't been as prevalent in cats as in dogs, but maybe it should be.

taelcat: A pet owner should ask if the parents have been tested and if the breeder has ever had a problem with genetic diseases.

PHKellen: It should be, I agree.

PHCatByte: faust, you've got a question for tael?

PHFaust: I know with dogs and looking at good breeders, you look to see how long they keep their pups. Longer time with mom and litter teaches socialization. Is that the same with cats?

taelcat: But, testing alone isn't always the answer. If a breeder's contract gaurantees the health of the cat they sell from these genetic diseases, then that is something the owner needs to also consider.

taelcat: Faust, I think so. I have found, though that most pet buyers want the kitten as early as possible. Sometimes it's difficult to make them understand that the kitten needs to be with its mom and siblings. There are unfortunately, breeders that will sell at a younger age.

PHFaust: Back to genetic diseases. I know of PKD in persians... are there several genetic issues that are common and we should ask about?

brody2: I just wanted to add - siblings are even more important to kittens then moms at key ages- I often raise orphans and the singles are very difficult - if I had to pick I'd rather raise 2-3 orphans then one kitten with a mom - moms do a good job health wise but sibnling are real teachers in many ways.

taelcat: Faust, I know of the diseases that are associated with Maine Coons. Each breed has their own disease(s) that one should be aware of. One way to find out is to look at the breed specific websites, or join a yahoogroups for that particular breed. One can learn a lot this way.

taelcat: brody, how right you are. I have a cat who was a singleton and boy is he a brat!

StLouieKits: I forgot my question. Sorry.

PHCatByte: oh. okay.

StLouieKits: I think it was about what age a kitten should be when they go to a new home.

brody2: Joanne - glad you agree - two of our permanent cats are cats that were returned at 6 months for biting - took a lot of work to socialize them - both were singletons raised by people not me ;)

PHCatByte: What's frustrating to me is that we aren't the ones who are likely to run out and get a purebred without having done some research into that breed..... most of us know at least something about PKD and/or HCM....

taelcat: StLouie, in maine coons it is 12 weeks of age. I think some breeders may even keep them for 16 weeks. I think that 12 weeks is about the norm for most breeders of all breeds.

taelcat: True CB.

PHAbymom: Abys are 12-16 weeks

taelcat: The sad thing is that people spend big bucks on these cats, and then have thousands of dollars in vet bills.

PHCatByte: We know enough to ask about the breeder's history in the fancy--how do we reach the general public who say, "oh, gee! persians and maine coons! the most popular breeds! let's go get one--and the more expensive it is, the better, right?"

PHCatByte: those are the ones the rest of us here will end up dealing with in rescue....

MaryNY: sighhhhhhhhhh

taelcat: CB, unfortunately, that is the case. Many breeders will help with the vet bills and reimburse the cost of the sale, but there are a lot out there who don't or can't.

PHCatByte: how do we TEACH people????

MaryNY: one at a time, cb. one at a time

MaryNY: ***claps hand over mouth****

taelcat: CB, I think by having chats like this for one. I try to tell people things to look for when I'm asked about buying a purebred cat. Buyers need to know they have to do their research, just like buying a car.

NYC_NYIfan: How is the optimum age for purrbred kittens different from the optimum age for DSH kittens? I adopted a 6-week-old kitten from a shelter on LI, and she had some eating issues (would eat like she didn't expect to have food the next day). Cat ended up living almost 18 1/2 years (Goalie).

taelcat: NYC, in the State of Maryland it is illegal to sell a kitten less than 8 weeks of age. I think that rule may apply in other states as well.

brody2: that is wonderful joanne

taelcat: I adopted one of my first cats at the age of 5 weeks and she lived to be 16.

brody2: oops sorry - I wanted to add that I think optimum age for dsh is also between 10-12 weeks they learn enough from siblings and are still cute enough to be kittens for families but big enough to be safer- less likely to have what I refer to as weaning fading...

MaryNY: I think as people have become more aware of cats as pets and pay more attention to the process, they are realiizing that kittens need the extra time to mature.

taelcat: Having not adopted a domestic in over 20 years, I am not that familiar as to the ages they are allowed to leave.

PHKellen: What's the best way to find a reputable breeder/cattery? Word of mouth, magazines, shows, or ?

taelcat: I am surprised that shelters will let them go at such a young age.

taelcat: Yes, yes and yes, Kellen. Also, join a chat group online for the breed that you are interested in. There are many of them available. It's a great way to meet others interseted in your breed.

taelcat: You can also contact the three associations TICA, CFA, ACFA for breeder referrals.

PHKellen: So it's good to check all around.

taelcat: Each of the sites has information on finding a responsible breeder and also lists breeders that register and show in that association.

taelcat: Kellen, most definitely.

PHKellen: thanks, tael!

PHAbymom: And our Breeder listings with a code of ethics required.

taelcat: Aby, let me add too that all three associations have a cattery of excellense program. This is where the cattery has to be visited and signed off on by a veterinarian.

PHKellen: oh, that's excellent, tael.

taelcat: It costs the breeders money to do this. So it's another question one can ask.

PHKellen: thank you.

PHAbymom: Mary you had a comment?

MaryNY: I don't know about other shelters, but ours tries to get young kittens out as fast as they can to avoid diseases that would kill them, unlike a breeder who has more control over what comes into the household.

MaryNY: so that may be what is allowing adoptions at 6 weeks

taelcat: That would make sense, Mary. Thanks!

PHAbymom: They just get overrun, too...

taelcat: It's very sad that shetlers can be hit so hard with URI's.

PHCatBytes: I would think that asking a breeder if they keep their kittens til they're 12 weeks old is a good way to tell who's just in it for the money, vs the good of the breed/the cats, too....

taelcat: I know as a breeder I once has an upper respiratory run through my cattery and it was awful to get everyone well again.

PHCatBytes: I think that shelters don't have much choice, in terms of space and time re: being able to keep younger kittens during kitten season....

taelcat: Yes, CB! I agree.

brody2: Mary I understand that but it isn't the ideal situation thats for sure.. we try to use foster homes for kittens that are at high risk - we also keep a nursery room to reduce risk some ...but you are right- there are times I'll send out younger kittens then I'd like to but only in pairs or groups

MaryNY: brody, we're a foster home for a rescue group

brody2: Mary - that's great- here too

taelcat: brody, it is definnitely a major difference in breeding versus shelter. I mean there are breeders out there who have too many cats, but most good breeders are realatively small and don't have the issues of sickness that shelters have.

brody2: I also have a shelter assistance program that puts me in the position of being the one who picks who lives and dies sometimes.

taelcat: I think the average breeder has about 10 breeding cats.

PHAbymom: I know with some breeds, you really don't know if you have show quality until they're 12 to 16 weeks.

taelcat: brody, I wouldn't like that job.

brody2: Joanne - absolutely

PHCatBytes: brody, that's another difference between breeders and shelters!

taelcat: Aby, and sometimes you don't even know then!

PHAbymom: True

taelcat: But yes, the longer that one holds onto a cat, the better to tell the quality.

StLouieKits: I have to go. Thanks, Joannne'

PHCatBytes: or the better to find out it wasn't quite the prize you thought it was....

PHAbymom: ear sets change, colors develop alot from 12 to 16 weeks

PHFaust: In regards to showing. Are there things that you can start doing at home to acclimate your cat to the stresses of showing?

brody2: joanne- I hoe nobody likes that job - but it is reality - there are ways to make it work tho

taelcat: Faust, yes there are. You can get the cat used to having a bath and blow dry (if necessary). You can handle the cat the way a judge would. For example,

PHAbymom: Yes, riding the washer and dryer in the carrier...

NYC_NYIfan: Riding the washer and dryer?

PHAbymom: Noise and motion.... like in a car

taelcat: In Maine Coons a judge would stretch the cat out. He'll feel the boning by running his hands down the cats legs, he'll touch the head and look for a square muzzle and a strong chin.

MaryNY: On top of the washer and dryer in the carrier, you mean?

taelcat: Lots of cats don't like their head being touched, so this is good to do to get them used to it.

NYC_NYIfan: Good thing I don't show ... don't think my laundromat would appreciate that!

PHAbymom: Yes, Mary

brody2: Gosh is this right

taelcat: All of my showcats were always good car travelers. I never had a problem with that.

PHFaust: I hear it is bad for cats to come out of cages head first... Is that true and do you also train for that

PHAbymom: Faust, you have more control if you can take them out tail end first

taelcat: Unless you have a cage at home to practice this in, it's hard to train them for it. I guess you can use your carrier... but yes, judges do like to take them out back end first.

PHFaust: Slowly learning cat showing... :)

taelcat: Tonto, who I was showing last year doesn't like to come out back first. I gave up trying to make him do it!

PHFaust: OHHH Tonto is sooo handsome.

PHAbymom: Hi Helmi!

Helmi: Good to hear from you all after a year or so!

NYC_NYIfan: Tael, speaking of Tonto, how is he doing?

taelcat: NYC, he took his last antibiotic yesterday. So now it's a "wait and see" if the infection will return.

taelcat: I'm pretty nervous about it. He's been on the antibiotics since the beginning of December.

NYC_NYIfan: GLOW continues for Tonto and you, Tael

taelcat: thank you, nyc.

NYC_NYIfan: When is his next followup/X-ray ?

taelcat: suposed to be two weeks... but I'll probably take him back in a week.

PHFaust: I have to run, but I did want to thank Joanne for coming tonight! :)

taelcat: Thank you Faust!

PHFaust: We appreciate you taking the time to be here. And same for Helmi!

Helmi: Glad to be here.

PHFaust: Night!

taelcat: Helmi, you don't know me but I am friends with Ginny -- who has the maine coons and shelties.

brody2: Looking for ideas as to how to get an older (siamese) used to travelling - he is NUTS in a carrier turns and twists and pees and is so stressed it breaks my heart....

MaryNY: Use a bigger carrier?

NYC_NYIfan: Brody, have you asked your vet if rescue remedy is safe for him?

taelcat: Gosh, brody -- I don't know. I have a cat now who immediately gets car sick when I put him in a carrier.

PHCatBytes: tael, thanks so much for being here tonight--- I have to run learn about dog behaviour now!

PHCatBytes: (tael'r says meow!)

NYC_NYIfan: It does contain alcohol, so might not be OK for all cats

brody2: he is a snuggle bum turned into shelter with his sister when dad passed away - family couldn't stand the noise- placed him he came back too loud.. he's now about 16 so likely to stay here ... I gave him a big carrier with a litter box and he wiped it out.

NYC_NYIfan: CB, Cathy says Dog behavior is a oxy moron

PHAbymom: On behalf of Cathobbyist.com, Jeff B, and myself, I want to take a moment to thank JoAnn Genovese for being part of our chat week. JoAnn, thanks for taking the time out to chat with us on Finding the right breeder!

PHKellen: Thank you, JoAnn! and GLOW continues to Tonto ...

brody2: Sorry - rescue remedy is good idea thanks

taelcat: Thanks for having me! I wish I could stay for your next chat -- but I have to get my computer working again.

taelcat: Take care everyone.... Thanks again! Goodnight!